ORG Student Meeting 28th July 2010

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Minutes

Printable Google Document


Date: 28th July 2010

Time: 2000BST

Location: #org-students

Attendees:

  • Carwyn Edwards : macxstross
  • Elliot Hughes : elliotjhug
  • Mike Jones : meic
  • Pete Smith : ptchaw

Apologies:

  • Micheal Holloway
  • Edmund Schluessel
  • Christopher Hunt

Agreed to logging in channel on the provision that specific sections could be removed upon request.


Aims discussed as to possible adoption:

  1. To lobby and campaign for the Digital Rights of Students
  2. To identify where abuses of Students' Digital Rights are taking place
  3. To Educate Students and Educational Institutions on their Digital Rights

Possible Campaigning Areas:

  • Educate students of the availability of Open Source alternatives to Proprietary software.
  • Campaign for Universities to provide and to use Open Source alternatives to commonly used software.
  • Campaign against TurnItIn's Violation of Students’ Rights and Educate the Media and Students about its use.

Agreed that we should still solicit new campaign ideas, especially around access to university information.


Logs

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 28 20:21:03 2010

Jul 28 20:21:15 <elliotjhug>	Meic, ofcourse - message or pm me if thats the case
Jul 28 20:21:40 <Meic>	That's perfect. Maybe we should write all of this down :)
Jul 28 20:21:49 <elliotjhug>	writing down as we go ;)
Jul 28 20:22:22 <Meic>	same :D
Jul 28 20:22:23 <ptchaw>	so to start things of, is there anything that we think org-students could endeavour to do?
Jul 28 20:22:45 <ptchaw>	i think it would be good to get a sort of mission statement type thing established
Jul 28 20:22:54 <Meic>	With regard to that, I am not an ideas man at the moment. I was waiting for macxstross to say something
Jul 28 20:23:07 <elliotjhug>	macxstross is in a resteraunt and will be slow replying
Jul 28 20:23:18 <ptchaw>	ooh okay
Jul 28 20:23:20 <Meic>	Oh yes! I remember! Hah hah
Jul 28 20:23:22 <elliotjhug>	(hence my op status)
Jul 28 20:23:34 <Meic>	*cough* restaurant *cough*
Jul 28 20:23:49 <elliotjhug>	Motion: Elliotjhug's spelling should never be corrected
Jul 28 20:24:04 <Meic>	seconded
Jul 28 20:24:13 <ptchaw>	thirded?
Jul 28 20:24:49 <elliotjhug>	OK - back on topic people. Mission statement. I would suggest that we start off with whatever ORG's is
Jul 28 20:24:55 <elliotjhug>	and adapt it to focus on students
Jul 28 20:25:43 <Meic>	That's great. elliotjhug , do you have a link toa page with ORGs general ethos?
Jul 28 20:25:48 <elliotjhug>	working on it
Jul 28 20:25:56 <ptchaw>	http://www.openrightsgroup.org/ourwork/annual-reports/review-of-activities-2008/about-the-open-rights-group/
Jul 28 20:26:08 <ptchaw>	that has a summary
Jul 28 20:26:14 <ptchaw>	and list of aims
Jul 28 20:26:45 <elliotjhug>	I would suggest that the third of the aims is outside of our remit
Jul 28 20:26:50 <elliotjhug>	and the others still apply
Jul 28 20:27:11 <ptchaw>	yup
Jul 28 20:27:32 <ptchaw>	although it would be good to tailor ours more towards students
Jul 28 20:28:11 <Meic>	Well, one thing very relevant to students I have found in my University study is as thus: I find that university libraries don
Jul 28 20:28:20 <Meic>	't supply enough books in e-format
Jul 28 20:28:42 <elliotjhug>	that could be a campaigning issue - but if we could focus on our remit first it will be much easier to filter ideas (and generate more)
Jul 28 20:29:00 <Meic>	It is extremely beneficial to have these books in electronic format. As the old saying goes - "You can't grep dead trees"
Jul 28 20:29:04 <Meic>	okey doke
Jul 28 20:29:18 <ptchaw>	okay, well part of what we do will be campaigning
Jul 28 20:29:29 <ptchaw>	but maybe we should also aim to educate students, about their digital rights?
Jul 28 20:29:52 <ptchaw>	we could have various campaigns, like org does that we are working towards
Jul 28 20:29:58 <elliotjhug>	yeah
Jul 28 20:30:01 <ptchaw>	encouraging ebooks could be one of them
Jul 28 20:30:05 <Meic>	Agreed. I am, quite honestly, not best placed to tell anyone about their digital rights!
Jul 28 20:30:37 <elliotjhug>	well education doesn't mean that we personally educate - it could involve marketting ORG material or arranging speakers etc
Jul 28 20:31:04 <ptchaw>	exactly
Jul 28 20:31:23 <elliotjhug>	ok - so we have "Educating Students on their Digital Rights" and I'd suggest "Campaigning to promote and protect the Digital Rights of Students"
Jul 28 20:32:07 <Meic>	I agree. Specifically, we could do research as to where digital rights are undermined in Universities
Jul 28 20:32:23 <Meic>	Not sure how that would look at this point
Jul 28 20:32:46 <elliotjhug>	ok so those two and "To identify where abuses of Students' Digital Rights are taking place"
Jul 28 20:32:49 <Meic>	But I'm sure there are some instances where Universities are doing some questionable stuff
Jul 28 20:32:59 <elliotjhug>	how are those three?
Jul 28 20:33:08 <Meic>	elliotjhug: Couldn't have put it better myself :)
Jul 28 20:33:43 <ptchaw>	yup, sounds good :)
Jul 28 20:33:45 <elliotjhug>	ok - I've minuted those as adopted for now - a formal vote seems OTT for 3 active people
Jul 28 20:34:18 <elliotjhug>	are we missing anything?
Jul 28 20:34:22 <Meic>	Well, if the log is issued then, I see no problem with regard to this anyway.
Jul 28 20:34:27 <ptchaw>	we could also have a few campaigns running, certainly org has several itself, but we could focus on university specific campaigns
Jul 28 20:34:34 <Meic>	I think one issue is that we should all register our nicks
Jul 28 20:34:42 <elliotjhug>	my nick is registered
Jul 28 20:34:45 <ptchaw>	suchs as the push for ebooks you mentioned
Jul 28 20:35:06 <Meic>	Something I still need to do. That way we can ensure that people don't abuse the log system
Jul 28 20:35:11 <ptchaw>	mine isn't, i will get that fixed
Jul 28 20:35:26 <elliotjhug>	ok - so we need to adapt the ebook point to push for digital rights rather than digital access (unless access to material should also be an aim?)
Jul 28 20:35:31 <Meic>	elliotjhug: I realise that. I however think we need to encourage that people do so. Such as myself
Jul 28 20:36:03 <Meic>	I think what was discussed is the opening of course material to the wider public
Jul 28 20:36:44 <ptchaw>	are you talking about lecturers' own material?
Jul 28 20:36:50 <Meic>	I am aware that there are institutions that do allow the general public to download information off the internet
Jul 28 20:36:54 <Meic>	ptchaw: Indeed
Jul 28 20:37:40 <ptchaw>	this could also overlap with out education aim... educating the university on how they can release material under open licenses, perhaps?
Jul 28 20:37:46 <Meic>	It is a more-so radical stance but I feel, as long as a University is publicly funded in part then it should give certain access to its content
Jul 28 20:38:04 <Meic>	ptchaw: I think that is initially the way forward
Jul 28 20:38:28 <elliotjhug>	yeah - I'd go with ptchaw's point
Jul 28 20:38:36 <Meic>	Developing a mechanism for Universities to release content under Creative Commons
Jul 28 20:39:11 <elliotjhug>	would it make sense for me to substitute "Students and Educational Institutions" for "Students" throughout the aims?
Jul 28 20:39:13 <Meic>	Or some such thing...I'm not sure which license is best. GPL Copyleft would obviously be my preference
Jul 28 20:40:03 <Meic>	Could you list them below please, elliotjhug ?
Jul 28 20:40:11 <elliotjhug>	sure, one second
Jul 28 20:40:12 <ptchaw>	thats something that universities would certainly have their own views on which licence
Jul 28 20:40:58 <elliotjhug>	proposed:
Jul 28 20:41:06 <elliotjhug>	Educating Students and Educational Institutions on their Digital Rights
Jul 28 20:41:06 <elliotjhug>	 
Jul 28 20:41:12 <elliotjhug>	Campaigning to promote and protect the Digital Rights of Students and Educational Institutions
Jul 28 20:41:12 <elliotjhug>	 
Jul 28 20:41:17 <elliotjhug>	To identify where abuses of Students' and Educational Institutions Digital Rights are taking place
Jul 28 20:41:17 <elliotjhug>	 
Jul 28 20:41:38 <Meic>	EOF?
Jul 28 20:41:40 <elliotjhug>	yup
Jul 28 20:41:56 <elliotjhug>	those are the three aims we adopted with modifications to cover institutions (ie universities) too
Jul 28 20:41:59 <ptchaw>	should we also aim to represent the digital rights of students, lobbying on their behalf?
Jul 28 20:42:17 <elliotjhug>	I'd say thats covered in point two? or do you mean something different?
Jul 28 20:42:20 <Meic>	Okay, the first one makes sense. However, I feel that the second two should omit "Educational Institutions. Definitely the third.
Jul 28 20:42:39 <elliotjhug>	OK - I'd be happy with that Meic. ptchaw?
Jul 28 20:42:57 <ptchaw>	i think you're right, but maybe we should extend point 2 to cover this?
Jul 28 20:43:07 <ptchaw>	yup thats fine with me
Jul 28 20:43:15 <Meic>	agreed :)
Jul 28 20:43:44 <Meic>	I just think we need to make it clear that abuses of students' digital rights can come from Educational Institutions
Jul 28 20:44:08 <elliotjhug>	so 2) "To Lobby and Campaign for the Digital Rights of Students"
Jul 28 20:44:18 <ptchaw>	perfect
Jul 28 20:44:27 <Meic>	^this
Jul 28 20:44:38 <Meic>	:)
Jul 28 20:44:46 <elliotjhug>	I'd suggest that we make that point 1
Jul 28 20:44:58 <elliotjhug>	identifying abuses comes second
Jul 28 20:45:30 <Meic>	good, good, good
Jul 28 20:45:35 <elliotjhug>	and "To Educate Students and Educational Institutions on their Digital Rights and Responsibilities" comes third
Jul 28 20:45:49 <ptchaw>	makes sence
Jul 28 20:46:47 <elliotjhug>	great - so from point 1 we move on to the access to university held information point
Jul 28 20:47:00 <elliotjhug>	Meic can you come up with a cleaner wording for us to decide on
Jul 28 20:47:01 <elliotjhug>	?
Jul 28 20:47:24 <Meic>	Oh dear...for which now?
Jul 28 20:47:53 <elliotjhug>	for the one you raised about libraries not making material available digtally
Jul 28 20:50:01 <Meic>	To encourage the digitisation of academic material for the benefit of ...
Jul 28 20:50:22 <Meic>	Sorry, struggling
Jul 28 20:50:25 <elliotjhug>	erm.. yeah - but this isn't going into aims - these are campaign ideas - so they can afford to be quite practical
Jul 28 20:50:46 <ptchaw>	i am wondering if that would come under a campaign, rather than general aim?
Jul 28 20:51:00 <Meic>	That would definitely be a campaign material, ptchaw
Jul 28 20:51:15 <elliotjhug>	yeah, sorry, I didn't make it clear - trying to move onto campaigning areas now
Jul 28 20:51:25 <ptchaw>	good, thats what i thought!
Jul 28 20:52:07 <Meic>	To encourage Institutions to build an ethos of sharing educational materials
Jul 28 20:52:17 <Meic>	sounds campaigny too...
Jul 28 20:52:35 <elliotjhug>	so I think Meic's point is actually in two areas - the first one I'm not sure about - that being the digitisation of material. The second I like alot being to encourage universities to share their material with the public
Jul 28 20:52:38 <Meic>	So yes, my point is two-fold:?
Jul 28 20:52:38 <Meic>	*:
Jul 28 20:53:03 <ptchaw>	i think a particularly good campaign, one which was raised at orgcon was educating students regarding open source alternatives to commercial software
Jul 28 20:53:07 <Meic>	The first one is encouraging Universities to push for books to be available in digital format
Jul 28 20:53:43 <Meic>	the second refers to encouraging institutions to share their materials as Universities are tax-funded
Jul 28 20:54:08 <Meic>	sorry, ptchaw, I'm not ignoring your suggestion :)
Jul 28 20:54:23 <Meic>	your idea is definitely more encouraging
Jul 28 20:54:28 <ptchaw>	yes, that makes sense although it does sort of fall under once campaign
Jul 28 20:54:33 <elliotjhug>	OK - I support the second - I don't think the first is covered in our remit (nobody has a right for books to be scanned)
Jul 28 20:54:35 <ptchaw>	no worries!
Jul 28 20:54:41 <Meic>	In fact, macxstross, I believe, has had some contact with Linux User Groups who might be able to liaise with us on this one
Jul 28 20:54:51 <Meic>	hah hah! okay, elliotjhug
Jul 28 20:55:45 <elliotjhug>	but nobody has been 'put in charge' so if you disagree do say - I'm just trying to get some solid thoughts down really
Jul 28 20:56:17 <Meic>	I'm happy so far
Jul 28 20:56:56 <elliotjhug>	so so campaiging ideas I'm going to put down ptchaws campaign proposal as 'Educate students of the availability of Open Source alternatives to Proprietary software.
Jul 28 20:56:56 <elliotjhug>	 "
Jul 28 20:57:30 <ptchaw>	okay :)
Jul 28 20:57:42 <Meic>	In addition to this, I would say that we should enable people to exercise net-neutrality
Jul 28 20:57:50 <ptchaw>	maybe, we could also be campaigning uptake of open source software in universities?
Jul 28 20:57:56 <ptchaw>	or is that too much?
Jul 28 20:58:03 <elliotjhug>	and I'd suggest we put Meic's second as "Campaign for Universities to share their materials under open licenses"
Jul 28 20:58:09 <ptchaw>	net neutrality is a good once
Jul 28 20:58:31 <elliotjhug>	it might be an idea to research net neutrality in how it affects universities?
Jul 28 20:58:32 <Meic>	ptchaw: In my experience, Universities will use software as long as it is available with support
Jul 28 20:58:33 <ptchaw>	i would propose we also aim to educate students regarding the universities own net neutrality
Jul 28 20:59:04 <Meic>	For instance, in CS, Aberystwyth, we weren't allowed to use Open Office on the Windows machines but were allowed to use Star Office on the SUn machines because it came with support
Jul 28 20:59:11 <ptchaw>	open source software arguably has some of the largest support bases?
Jul 28 20:59:25 <elliotjhug>	well it depends how long term we're thinking
Jul 28 21:00:02 <elliotjhug>	(in terms of whether we want to try and persuade the univeristies to use FOSS software)
Jul 28 21:00:07 <Meic>	Open Source software would need a mechanism where information services at the university could call up X if "the windows is not werkin"\
Jul 28 21:00:34 <ptchaw>	there are companies which offer commercial support for open software, though
Jul 28 21:00:40 <ptchaw>	*source
Jul 28 21:00:54 <Meic>	Hence, Aberystwyth University uses (at least they did) Sun Solaris which came with support but is still Open Source
Jul 28 21:01:23 <Meic>	Indeed, ptchaw. Hence, maybe we could team up with Oracle to encourage the proliferation of their product in Universities?
Jul 28 21:01:41 <Meic>	Computer Science departments, I would say on the whole, are okay in this regard.
Jul 28 21:02:04 <Meic>	I just don't see how we could encourage alternatives to Microsoft products
Jul 28 21:02:27 <Meic>	say, in an English department. We could always encourage a dual booted system, perhaps. If that is indeed possible
Jul 28 21:02:35 <elliotjhug>	perhaps we should be aiming to research what stops universities taking up OS software and work on solutions from there?
Jul 28 21:02:41 <Meic>	still, it's added cost to the institution
Jul 28 21:02:58 <ptchaw>	well, it doesn't have to be microsoft alternatives
Jul 28 21:03:03 <elliotjhug>	(OS = Open source here not operating system)
Jul 28 21:03:16 <Meic>	Hah hah! I understood elliotjhug  :)
Jul 28 21:03:19 <ptchaw>	but even if it is only just making open source software accessible on university machines
Jul 28 21:04:00 <Meic>	firefox par exemple?
Jul 28 21:04:01 <ptchaw>	i agree, dual booting would be too ambitious for anything other than computer science depts
Jul 28 21:04:07 <ptchaw>	exactly
Jul 28 21:04:27 <Meic>	erm...what else...
Jul 28 21:04:38 <Meic>	cygwin...maybe that's the geek coming out in me
Jul 28 21:04:39 <ptchaw>	open office, gimp?
Jul 28 21:04:47 <ptchaw>	*googles*
Jul 28 21:04:50 <Meic>	I would be very happy to lobby for open office
Jul 28 21:05:05 <Meic>	cygwin is a bit arbitrary to the average person
Jul 28 21:05:30 <Meic>	can't imagine many social scientists would need a C-compiler, really...
Jul 28 21:05:42 <elliotjhug>	a specific software list is probably a bit much to decide on with so few people
Jul 28 21:05:50 <Meic>	kk
Jul 28 21:06:02 <ptchaw>	certainly, infact i wonder if we should even have a set list
Jul 28 21:06:24 <ptchaw>	since the campaign should apply to any useful os alternative
Jul 28 21:06:44 <elliotjhug>	so "Campaign for Universities to adopt open source software"?
Jul 28 21:07:22 <Meic>	yeah, I like!
Jul 28 21:07:32 <elliotjhug>	or "Campaign for Universities to adopt open source alternatives to commonly used software" which is more specific?
Jul 28 21:08:01 <Meic>	Yeah, I was going to say. Something along those lines.
Jul 28 21:08:02 <ptchaw>	hm, i think just the first is open enough
Jul 28 21:08:29 <macxstross>	is someone keeping a log?
Jul 28 21:08:37 <elliotjhug>	well I'd say the more specific our campaigns can be the better
Jul 28 21:08:48 <elliotjhug>	macxstross, yes - I am
Jul 28 21:08:54 <Meic>	In the long term, I would say that the first statement makes sense
Jul 28 21:08:58 <macxstross>	cool
Jul 28 21:09:04 <ptchaw>	well, i don't think it should be limited to just software thats commonly used
Jul 28 21:09:08 <Meic>	but in the short term, the second is more true
Jul 28 21:09:30 <ptchaw>	any open source alternative is something we should strive towards
Jul 28 21:09:32 <elliotjhug>	well I think the first is very 'aimy' and would be quite difficult to actually act on
Jul 28 21:09:40 <ptchaw>	i aggree
Jul 28 21:09:50 <ptchaw>	*agree (sorry meic)
Jul 28 21:09:58 <elliotjhug>	so can anyone suggest an improvement to second?
Jul 28 21:10:25 <ptchaw>	still thinking!
Jul 28 21:11:26 <ptchaw>	Campaign for Universities to adopt open source alternatives to propriety software?
Jul 28 21:11:32 <Meic>	"Campaign for Universities to provide and to use Open Source alternatives to commonly used software"
Jul 28 21:11:57 <elliotjhug>	"Campaign for Universities to provide and to use Open Source alternatives to proprietery software"?
Jul 28 21:12:21 <ptchaw>	i think adopt covers provide and use
Jul 28 21:12:22 <Meic>	I like the amalgamation of the two
Jul 28 21:12:47 <elliotjhug>	I personally prefer 'provide and use'
Jul 28 21:12:53 <elliotjhug>	but its semantics really
Jul 28 21:12:56 <Meic>	I don't think the semantics is so important.
Jul 28 21:13:34 <Meic>	I will go with elliotjhug's revision of my choice of words XD
Jul 28 21:13:43 <ptchaw>	ditto :)
Jul 28 21:13:53 <elliotjhug>	ok - thats carried then
Jul 28 21:14:00 <ptchaw>	woo :)
Jul 28 21:14:21 <Meic>	elliotjhug: How many campaign ideas do we have thus far?
Jul 28 21:14:25 <elliotjhug>	thats 2 formalised
Jul 28 21:14:39 <Meic>	cool beans
Jul 28 21:14:43 <ptchaw>	proposal for a third...
Jul 28 21:15:20 <Meic>	raising awareness of mechanisms to students to provide anonymity online
Jul 28 21:15:34 <Meic>	*to provide students with anonymity online
Jul 28 21:15:44 <elliotjhug>	I'd like "Campaign to inform students about what actions their university takes to reveal their identity to copyright holding organisations" (thats badly worded)
Jul 28 21:15:58 <ptchaw>	i think that is important
Jul 28 21:16:17 <Meic>	I can certainly think of an example of this
Jul 28 21:16:45 <Meic>	There's a mechanism for checking student's essays for 'plagiarism'
Jul 28 21:16:46 <ptchaw>	although i think it should also cover students rights when dealing with accusations of copyright 'theft'
Jul 28 21:17:14 <Meic>	It's called "Turn-it-in" and it's basically a huge database of students' essays which compares your essay to it and then it copies your essay!
Jul 28 21:17:27 <elliotjhug>	I'm not sure whether education pupils about anonymity is necessary in the broadest case. But howabout "Raising awareness of how companies (such as facebook) share their information"
Jul 28 21:17:31 <Meic>	So this company is actually using your work for their monetary gain
Jul 28 21:18:04 <ptchaw>	is there a legal argument against them doing this?
Jul 28 21:18:25 <ptchaw>	or do they make you sign an agreement when you submit work to be added to the database?
Jul 28 21:18:25 <Meic>	We were not made aware of the way Turn it in worked until it was time to submit our essays. By which time it was too late (apparently) to object
Jul 28 21:18:43 <Meic>	It was apparently an opt out approach
Jul 28 21:18:48 <Meic>	Basically, if we refused, we'd fail the module
Jul 28 21:19:10 <elliotjhug>	Meic - can you to explain 'Turn it In'  in some greater detail?
Jul 28 21:19:13 <Meic>	SO I think we need to condemn Turn it in and mae students aware that they should try to opt out of this system
Jul 28 21:20:08 <Meic>	Okay Elliot. I write an Essay for my tutor. Then, instead of my essay tutor initially checking my essay for plagiarism, it is done in this manner:
Jul 28 21:20:59 <ptchaw>	wikipedia has a good article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnitin
Jul 28 21:21:01 <Meic>	I submit my essay online to Turn it in, usually through Blackboard content management system (like Moodle). Then my essay is compared to a database with lots of students' essays from across the UK for any similarities
Jul 28 21:21:20 <Meic>	Then a report is compiled and sent to my tutor which tells them how much my essay has plagiarised!
Jul 28 21:21:49 <ptchaw>	this is a rather extreme bit of action, but maybe we could look into this
Jul 28 21:22:00 <Meic>	However, in addition to this, Turn it in keeps a copy of my coursework and that then is used to check against other students' work
Jul 28 21:22:05 <ptchaw>	i've had similar encouters with turnitin during my a levels
Jul 28 21:22:25 <elliotjhug>	it sounds like something we could definitely look in to - educating students about it would be easy to do - and campaiging against it could be nice and high profile for us
Jul 28 21:22:27 <Meic>	My issue is with Universities using this system in a very sly manner
Jul 28 21:22:30 <ptchaw>	we could consider, maybe, filing a class action lawsuit on behalf of students against the company?
Jul 28 21:22:46 <Meic>	Hah hah! i don't, ptchaw
Jul 28 21:22:55 <Meic>	What I would like to do is raise awareness of Turn it in
Jul 28 21:23:10 <elliotjhug>	ptchaw, perhaps a little difficult for 4 of us?
Jul 28 21:23:10 <ptchaw>	i would love to, it looks like they clearly fall outside the real of fair use
Jul 28 21:23:10 <Meic>	So that students can specifically reject the system before it's too late for them
Jul 28 21:23:20 <ptchaw>	a little, perhaps
Jul 28 21:23:23 <ptchaw>	:(
Jul 28 21:23:27 <Meic>	hah hah!
Jul 28 21:23:50 <Meic>	There's always a manner in which we could go to the headquarters of Turn it in and kick up a fuss
Jul 28 21:23:59 <elliotjhug>	ptchaw, but if we educate people about it and campaign loudly we could cause them to make some concessions
Jul 28 21:24:16 <Meic>	elliotjhug: that's my idea
Jul 28 21:24:25 <Meic>	I felt cheated this year when I had to use the system
Jul 28 21:24:38 <elliotjhug>	Meic, sorry - stealing your ideas through osmosis
Jul 28 21:24:40 <Meic>	Because we were not given a say in this controversial system
Jul 28 21:25:14 <elliotjhug>	so what we want is to educate studednts definititely. I'd say we should be aiming to gather media attention as well
Jul 28 21:25:17 <Meic>	Hah hah! :D I don't mind. I think it would be very cool to show condemnation to Turn it in
Jul 28 21:25:23 <ptchaw>	certainly campaign work, would be good to raise the issue
Jul 28 21:25:45 <ptchaw>	i like where this is going! :)
Jul 28 21:25:49 <Meic>	Yeah :) Target academic institutions and ask them if they use the system
Jul 28 21:25:56 <Meic>	send a mail shot
Jul 28 21:25:58 <ptchaw>	almost all do
Jul 28 21:26:01 <elliotjhug>	ok - so "campaign against TurnItIn's violation of students rights and educate the media and students about its use"
Jul 28 21:26:01 <ptchaw>	sadly
Jul 28 21:26:28 *	Meic 's heart is pounding with excitement
Jul 28 21:26:31 <Meic>	:D
Jul 28 21:26:38 <elliotjhug>	those three would be awesome as a starting point I'd say
Jul 28 21:26:41 <ptchaw>	ditto :)
Jul 28 21:26:57 <Meic>	Cool :)
Jul 28 21:27:06 <elliotjhug>	https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1Yr9qvqPWrSUT9tSQTg8Flvhj12tf_qsgc7MdD39sDCA&hl=en_GB&authkey=CPuqwMQP <-- that is what I have
Jul 28 21:27:08 <elliotjhug>	any objections?
Jul 28 21:27:28 <ptchaw>	just an idea.. the uk base of turnitin is at a few events...
Jul 28 21:27:29 <ptchaw>	http://www.submit.ac.uk/static_jisc/ac_uk_more_events.html
Jul 28 21:27:36 <ptchaw>	maybe a lil protest there?
Jul 28 21:27:41 <ptchaw>	as a future idea
Jul 28 21:28:10 <elliotjhug>	yeah - as a future idea thats great - but we need numbers- remember the poor media attention at the DEBill protest
Jul 28 21:28:15 <Meic>	elliotjhug: , the campaigns points 2 + 3 are duplicate
Jul 28 21:28:32 <elliotjhug>	Meic, I need to learn to copy and paste! cheers for that
Jul 28 21:28:38 <Meic>	I believe the third one is "campaign against TurnItIn's violation of students rights and educate the media and students about its use" [22:26] <ptchaw> sadly
Jul 28 21:28:43 <Meic>	heh heh coo'
Jul 28 21:29:06 <ptchaw>	good point
Jul 28 21:29:14 <ptchaw>	we will need to be well organised!
Jul 28 21:29:46 <Meic>	should it be suggested that we read up a bit on Turn it in this week?
Jul 28 21:29:47 <ptchaw>	slight typo on the third... Violation of Students rights!
Jul 28 21:30:05 <elliotjhug>	fix'd
Jul 28 21:30:14 <ptchaw>	sure, i'll do a bit of research
Jul 28 21:31:16 <Meic>	elliotjhug: where will these meeting minutes be linked to?
Jul 28 21:31:23 <elliotjhug>	ok - so do you want me / macxstross to push the third point to the list as our primary campaign point for now?
Jul 28 21:31:29 <ptchaw>	i know UCAS has a similar system, i'll check; i think it might use turnitin as well for personal statements
Jul 28 21:31:53 <elliotjhug>	Meic, not sure what I'm going to do with them yet, probably wikify and link on the mailing lists and the topic here
Jul 28 21:32:11 <ptchaw>	what about orgs wiki?
Jul 28 21:32:24 <Meic>	ptchaw: That's what I was thinking
Jul 28 21:32:25 <ptchaw>	would be good to get some more stuff up there
Jul 28 21:32:29 <elliotjhug>	"elliotjhug: ..."wikify"...."
Jul 28 21:32:38 <elliotjhug>	'tis what I suggested :)
Jul 28 21:32:42 <ptchaw>	ooh sorry!
Jul 28 21:32:59 <elliotjhug>	I'll sort that now actually
Jul 28 21:33:03 <Meic>	Gentleman! We are as one organism
Jul 28 21:33:14 <Meic>	Such is the melting pot of IRC
Jul 28 21:33:16 <Meic>	:)
Jul 28 21:33:29 <ptchaw>	woo!
Jul 28 21:33:56 <Meic>	I will regret saying that when it's put up on the wiki
Jul 28 21:33:59 <Meic>	T_T
Jul 28 21:34:03 <elliotjhug>	can we also agree that we are open to other proposals especially regarding access to university information?
Jul 28 21:34:17 <ptchaw>	definitely
Jul 28 21:34:23 <elliotjhug>	ok - check the document then
Jul 28 21:34:43 <Meic>	Absolutely. The Turn it in thing is dearest to my heart. However, I don't think we can live for long on that issue alone
Jul 28 21:34:58 <elliotjhug>	hows that last poitn?
Jul 28 21:35:00 <Meic>	Stay in the eye of the media, hopefully
Jul 28 21:35:34 <Meic>	I think that is perfectly coherent
Jul 28 21:35:40 <elliotjhug>	OK - do we want to close the meeting here then?
Jul 28 21:35:53 <ptchaw>	i'm happy with that, for now
Jul 28 21:35:55 <elliotjhug>	(ie I'll stop logging and we can continue talking but not making policy decisions)